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Messages - Chaz

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Open Discussion / Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« on: November 21, 2020, 01:04:18 AM »
M&B posted something that bears discussion on it's own.

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so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering?

I'm reading "believe" as "between".

The answer to that is unequivocally, yes.

My guru gave a teaching where he said the fear was the cause of suffering.  Where are afraid the good things will go away and bad things will stay.  so we become attached to that.  Thus there is suffering.

A mother, naturally fears for her child.  She is afraid that her child will get sick.  The child will die.  Leave her.  Not love her.  This cause the mother to cling to the chaild in the forlorn hope that the changes she fears will not come to pass.  That is suffering.  The mother isn't bad for feeling the way she does.  The suffering she experiences isn't bad either.  Just the same it is attachment and it is suffering.

I have an example.  about 50 years ago something happened with/to me that caused my mother such anguish and fear for my well-being that she had a breakdown and ended up in the hospital.  Wht she was feeling wasn't bad, and quite understandable, but it she was suffering on my account.  It was so bad that the family never really recovered from it and  that's on me.  A lot of suffering from a lot of love. 

That's an extreme case, but event the natural care and love a mother will have for her child, will be suffering.  It's inescapable.

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 21, 2020, 12:42:37 AM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 20, 2020, 11:39:01 PM
You are sanctimonious, i didn't force you to respond to the topic, you went ahead and did it anyway because you clearly thought you were helping me or something. There's nothing wrong with leaving your forum blank until better content comes along.

You clearly haven't learned anything. Obviously not everyone in SC likes NASCAR, I'm so %^&*ing tired of other peoples dumb as hell generalizations, it's a nightmare, %^&* you. I'm tired of hearing one type of person say "the welfare cheats ruin everything! the immigrants steal!", and then the other person say "america is white supremacist! white supremacists are ruining democracy!".

I also don't fully rely on other people's generalizations...but that's part of being a human, is you rely on information that other people give you, I can't make them out of thin air unless I'm either lying or writing stories. I find very questionable the idea that "attachment leads to suffering", so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering? Seems like a lot of people don't want to question ancient religious ideas. But what would buddhism be if they did?

All sanghas seem to either want you to torture yourself or lie to you, so what's the point? I don't see why more people don't practice meditation alone and fully divorce it from hindu spirituality and buddhism (there's very little difference between the two...). I wanted to put this in a much shorter message but your programming clearly still doesn't %^&*ing work. It would have taken you much less time and effort to tell me what a TOS is...

Dude, what are you going on about?  Somebody pee in your Wheaties this morning or something?

Now, I'm gonna let the "!@#$ You" slide.  Just this once.  But for the record ......

I'm not sanctimonious.

You're the one who presumed to say I lived in a rural area, my best guess why being that you apparently assume that SC is entirely rural.  You're also the one made the generalization that people down here are "rednecks".

I didn't write the 4NT, ok?  If you don't like the idea that attachment is suffering, that's fine, but it is what Buddhism teaches.

You can meditate all you like and completely divorce yourself from the Dharmic Religion part.  That's fine, too.

I understand if you've had some trouble with other Sanghas.  I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about that.

You are also the one who put this topic in the DZ.  What did you expect.

You also posted a topic that quite honestly would be difficult to impossible to discuss here.  I'm sorry but I can't helpt that, either.

So what's the !@#$ing problem?

Oh, and TOS means Terms of Service

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 20, 2020, 10:15:08 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 20, 2020, 07:56:36 PM
I can't help but presuming when other people make such broad statements as "...people here [where?] would rather talk about NASCAR than duality...", standard internet affair, people just wait for some moment to criticize somebody else or tell them what to do. I would really love to never make unfair generalizations about other people but doesn't seem possible. I basically just have to try to play along with everyone else's generalizations. Have fun with your fuzzy lollypops, I'll be back when I need some reading material.

Except that I live in in SC and that people here seem to value NASCAR over duality as conversational fare, I never said anything to even suggest I live in a rural setting.  That's on you.

You don't have to rely on the generalizations that others establish.  Create your own or try not to generalize.

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 20, 2020, 07:25:31 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 20, 2020, 07:08:38 PM
i'm glad you are learning about rural america, i

You presume too much.  I don't live in a rural area.

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yet i've found that people in cities are just as prejudicial and suspicious towards strangers, so I don't know how I would work that out other than being perfect,

You can't be perfect.  Don't try.

Trungpa Rinpoche once said that Buddhism was about becoming a genuine human being.  That doesn't not include being "perfect", whatever that means.


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so I don't know how I would work that out in the long run without tremendous suffering.

If you try to become something that's impossible to achieve, I guarantee you will suffer for it.

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 20, 2020, 03:26:21 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 20, 2020, 02:46:32 AM
my bad, i guess i just thought that's what you meant since there's that joke: "What does NASCAR stand for? Non-athletic sport centered around rednecks"...there also has been a pretty tremendous amount of prejudice centered around people from certain states like the one you live in, mostly on the internet, mostly because of a certain president...

The people down here have been getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop from the rest of the country for a long time.  When we decided to move down here we had friends who doubted our sanity, based on their perception of what things are like here.  Happy to say it ain't so - at least to the extent of their fears and predjudices.

This conveniently points to your topic of duality.  People in the North percienve the South differently - less that their own - inferior - egregious. They do this to feel better about themselves.  I call it Othering.

And yes, it causes suffering.

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 20, 2020, 02:28:32 AM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 20, 2020, 02:01:20 AM
You could probably find ways of talking about duality with those supposed "rednecks" <snip>

People down here?  They're not "redencks".  They're people.  There are three things that matter down here - NASCAR, Church and Barbeque (not necessarily in that order). They just don't care about dualiity.  Most people don't.  I don't blame them.

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 19, 2020, 12:40:46 AM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 18, 2020, 10:06:29 PM
if my credibility is what's important here, i can't find anything at the moment which says exactly that,

It's not a question of credibility.  It's curiosity.

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but when i was part of a zen sangha i read that it's forbidden as a monk to talk about other people in the sangha when they aren't there to hear it.

This isn't a monatery and we aren't monks.

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Anyway, I didn't post this to seek more questions, I posted this because I'm wondering what the legit differences are between eastern and western duality, or maybe if there's has been any recent changes in these things that we could learn from.

Ok, now you're talking about duality.  IOW you've moved the goalposts.

"i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways. Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism."

yes, these two sentences do fallow each other. People from the US tend to look for something without.

From what you seem to be asking for, would involve an initmate knowledge of varying cultures.  That's something you'll find rare around here.  I spent time in Egypt and talked to a lot of poeople about a lot of Egyptian things, but we never got around to a discussion of comparative indeas on duality.  I know a lot of Canadians and we talk about a lot of stuff including but not limited to why their beer sucks, but never about Duality. I recently moved to the American Southeast.  Different culture.  Again, they'd rather talk about Nascar than duality down here.  I've met a few ethic Tibetans, and we've actually discussed duality or more properly the dualistic nature of our perceptions.  Not sure if that's what's you're after, though..

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: November 18, 2020, 05:24:45 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 18, 2020, 04:41:32 AM
i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways.


In some ways, yes, in other ways, no.

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Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism.

Not sure how that follows?

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In strict buddhism your not even really supposed to talk about other people, <snip>

Really?  I'm curious.  Where?



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Open Discussion / Re: Favorite Buddhist books
« on: November 17, 2020, 08:26:00 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 17, 2020, 05:14:02 PM

I'm definetly gonig to read this one, the title is basically perfect, some of the problem i've had with her work before is that it can be too wordy.

One thing to keep in mind about books like Ani Pema's is that it isn't written in the conventional sense.  She didn't sit down at a typewriter and compose the book.  It was originally a series of teachings, that were recorded, transcribed, edited, proofread and published.  Most of this work is done by her students.

The book is primarily about Lojong, but Ani Pema also teaches about Tonglen practice and how to do it.

Good stuff.

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Open Discussion / Re: Practicing absolute humility when other's refuse it
« on: November 17, 2020, 07:42:54 PM »
Quote from: MarasAndBuddhas on November 17, 2020, 05:41:41 PM
How does one mostly live for the benefit of others?

Through practice to develop compassion.  Two such practices are Meta and Tonglen.

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It is true that if you feel like you are the protagonist in your life that just leads to suffering because you get attached to self-preservation.

Any attachment leads to suffering.

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Meditation / Lojong Teachings streamed Live
« on: November 16, 2020, 03:49:56 AM »
Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche's Mangala Shri Bhuti  group will be having live streamed event on Logong practice Dec 5 & 6.  It will be free.

https://wp.mangalashribhuti.org/product/DJN2020L?fbclid=IwAR3E8gi_dghTGtxCgPFsuUsqEbtcq5_Ff32RjBWmDuoqhmXkOSuuVTp5Y1M

As I understand it, there will be three talks led by Dungse Jampal Norbu. I'm not familiar with Norbu, but with the connection to Dzigar Kongtrul I'm sure this will be great

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Meditation / Re: Jeffrey the Meditator
« on: October 28, 2020, 05:51:36 PM »
Quote from: Gibbon on October 28, 2020, 04:03:56 PM
Thanks for reminding me about Ze Frank -- I spent quite a bit of time yesterday laughing my head off.  Also learned surprising new things about the animal kingdom.

Did you find true facts about Morgan Freeman?

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Open Discussion / Re: Favorite Buddhist books
« on: October 28, 2020, 03:03:36 PM »
Start Where You Are - Pema Chodren

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Meditation / Re: Jeffrey the Meditator
« on: October 27, 2020, 06:07:35 PM »
I've been in touch with JtM.  He and his team are expecting to release the next video soon and have been working of a release schedule that will take them into the Spring.


Gibbon - find Ze Frank?

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Meditation / Life Turns
« on: October 25, 2020, 03:39:04 PM »
I find that life has it's turns.  They are often unexpected, and not always welcome, but by the end, alwasys interesting in how things worked out.

It seems that Gibbon started something.  He asked about my Ngondro practice in a thread a couple weeks ago, and it truned into a brain worm of sorts.  I've been thinking about Ngondro a lot.

I stopped my practice about 4 years ago.  The main reason was that I had lost interest in my goal - fulfillment of the prelininaries to tantric/Vajrayana practices.  Reasons aside, I decided that I wasn't going to be that kind of practitioner, and if so, the practice on Ngondro wasn't particularly important, so I stopped.

I've always felt bad about that.  The empowerments given for practices of this sort come with the obligation to perform the practice faithfully, untill released by the Guru.  While there are no deadlines involved (it takes as long as it takes.  One mentor I had took 15 years), you don't move on intil your finished.  Traditionally, that means 100,000 repetitions of 4 practices - Refuge, Vajrasattva, Mandala and Guru Yoga.  Many western lineage holders are asking students for 20,000 each. Mine does, but that's still a pretty big number..........anyway ......... I felt bad about stopping practice.  I had agreed to contunine and I wasn't.  That's not very good Karma. But still, they don't come and take away your Super Secret Vajra Decoder Ring over it.  Life, such as it is, goes on.

Well, Life it seems has gone (back?) to a place where resuming the practice seems likely.  I'm gathering materials.  Talking with an old friend about it.  Studying the liturgry.  It's good.

Along with Gib's gentle push, this forum has served as well.  My feelings about FreeSanga have changed since Wonky and I put the forum back together.  We turned a page.  The forum has the same name and the same look , but it's still new and that means new possibilities. Something can be built here. It's exciting.  It has me thinking about things in a way I haven't seen in a long time.  We're getting off to a slow start, but that's ok.

I'm glad you're all here.

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