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Messages - Avisitor

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1
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 15, 2021, 05:32:56 AM »
I see you like to be difficult and contrary. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

LOL, people can be so apologetic when theirs an impeding fear of DOOM and FIRE
Yeah, and the cycle continues on.
And why would any body be apologetic if not for their fear of impending DOOM and FIRE.
Have seen video of police kick a guy in a holding cell. This is while the guy is handcuff and not resisting.
Charges were brought up against the officer. And in court, he apologized so tearfully.
What good were those apologies to the guy in the holding cell?

OK, I don't want to see this degrade into a discussion on right speech.  I think I've been abundantly clear already, but recap,  while perhaps not quite unacceptable, calling someone child-like is pushing the boundaries pretty close to the edge and I encourage all of us to not go there, even if it isn't our intent to insult or demean. 

I would like that to be the last word on that and I would request we get back to the east/west discussion we were having.  If not, I'll just lock the thread.

Ok?
[/quote]
Did you bother to read it? Those were removed if you did not notice????
There was no calling anyone child like (connotations are good) or childish (connotations are not good).
There was no insults or anything of the sort. Hmm, time to leave.

2
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 14, 2021, 12:51:54 AM »
Yeah, have seen those who put out compliments only to be truly insulting.
Sometimes hard to see the real meaning without the actual words being heard.

I see you like to be difficult and contrary. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

LOL, people can be so apologetic when theirs an impeding fear of DOOM and FIRE
Yeah, and the cycle continues on.
And why would any body be apologetic if not for their fear of impending DOOM and FIRE.
Have seen video of police kick a guy in a holding cell. This is while the guy is handcuff and not resisting.
Charges were brought up against the officer. And in court, he apologized so tearfully.
What good were those apologies to the guy in the holding cell?

3
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 13, 2021, 03:45:47 PM »

I see you like to be difficult and contrary. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.

<Chaz  put's on his Mod Cap> Ok, so how about we try and be a little more carefull about choice of words, ok?
And to think this was about a note to not take what I say as being rude or an attack????

4
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 07, 2021, 07:41:23 PM »
Self may be an illusion, but that is only relative. Despite what you have intelectualized, you will cponue to behave as if all phenomena have a self. 

So what has faith?  The you/self that perpetuates despite what what you believe you know.

Don't know what "cponue" means.
What I believe I know is what I have learned along the way.
At first, it doesn't really make much sense. However, learn it and practice.
Learn the Dharma and practice. Soon, some of it sinks in and makes sense.

As to self, this is what I have learned or believe.
It may be true or it may be false. If you know better then please correct me.
The self is made of of aggregates. The body a composition of matter.
The matter, having formed senses, has an aggregate of sensations, perceptions.
The mind has perceptions and mental formations. It leads to awareness and consciousness.
With this combination of aggregates, a by product is the impression that there is a self.
That things outside of self are happening to the self. But, once death takes over,
the aggregates fall apart. There is no more self. Nothing that was made of aggregates remains
Only that which existed before will continue to exist.
Sort of like "what was your face before your parents were born?

5
Tea Room / Re: Jokes and stories
« on: May 06, 2021, 06:52:11 AM »
One day there was a woman who had just lost her baby to a disease
She held the dead baby in her arms crying and asked for help to bring the baby back to life
Pleading with anyone who was near enough to hear her cries.
Walking through the streets. Holding her baby. Crying.
Everyone dismissed her crying. Finally she ended up at the monastery.
She sought help. The monks could not help her.
The abbot came out and saw this crying woman. He asked what was wrong.
She told him her baby was dead. She needed help to bring him back to life.
The abbot seeing with compassion and wisdom. Answered the woman.
Saying he could help her but she must first go to the next village
and get mustard seeds from every house that has not had a death.
Finally, she felt that someone heard her cries for help.
Leaving the dead baby with the abbot, she went off to gather the seeds.
When she came back that night, her pockets and hands were empty.
Not one house did not have a death. She realized that death hits everyone.
She took her baby back, cried and buried it.

Have heard this story many times. I am sorry if I did not tell this one correctly.

6
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 06, 2021, 03:34:49 AM »
I get that, but the way you put it leaves things open to say that all traditions other than Buddhism can or do.
Other traditions or religions may or may not. I was not talking about those others.
Again, saying the sky is blue, it does not mean it can not be grey.
The reader is drawing his own conclusions base on his past experience.
But, will concede the point to you.

Quote
If I say that in Buddhist view is there is no such thing as self
Or there is nothing that goes on after the death of the skandhas. Well as far as the three truths.
1. Everything is impermanent and changing ... Annica
2. Impermanence leads to suffering .............. Dukkha
3. There is no self (unchanging) ................... Anatta

Actually those are the Three Marks of Existence.
Yes, they are called that too. A rose is a rose by any other name.
I am not a Buddhist. What I learned are picked up along the way.
Will concede point to you.

Quote
Question becomes, "No self. So, what is there that can have any faith at all??"
That hints of nihilism.  Better to say that "no self can be found".
No self. You look at it and find no self can be found.
Me having found no self, questions further what can have faith?
And, that is why I posed the question of what there is that can have any faith at all.
What you said and what I said are not the same.

Nihilism?? Do not know what that is.
But, you must know.
All three points are yours.

Note: Please do not take anything I say personally.
There is no intent to be rude or attack.
It is just my personality taking over the conversation.
Ego is sometimes a hard thing to keep in check.
Thanks.

7
Tea Room / Re: Jokes and stories
« on: May 05, 2021, 06:53:52 AM »
The stories are all suppose to lead to the same thing. A clear head and right view. Using wisdom and compassion as guide posts in your life.
Each reader may pick out what they seek. And what they seek, they will find. The saying goes, when one is a hammer then the world looks like nails. You will find what you seek cause you seek it.

One day a monk went to a monastery to see what goes on inside the walls
There he saw three men go into a chamber and started meditating
The monk asked what they were doing.
They said they were practicing meditation to become enlightened.
At those words, he picked up a roof tile and began rubbing it on the ground.
The three men asked what the monk was doing
The monk replied, if you can meditate and become enlightened
Then this roof tile can be polished into a mirror

So, why does one meditate? Or do Zazen??

In Japan, someone asked the monk if a dog has Buddha nature.
The monk replied "MU".

8
Danger Zone / Re: Forgiving the Views of others.
« on: May 05, 2021, 06:29:52 AM »
Forgiving the views of others? Forgiving others usually is a first step in finding peace in oneself.
Are you looking at the word "Right" as in right vs wrong?

Right view as in the eightfold path, does not mean right versus wrong
It means the view that leads to the truth
And when one finally sees the truth, compassion and wisdom leads one to understand the right action
right livelihood, right speech, right conduct, right understanding, right thoughts, right effort, right concentration
It means doing that which is in line with the truth.
Yeah, probably all wrong ...  :o :o 8) 8) >:( >:( :-X :-X

9
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 05, 2021, 06:21:51 AM »
Well if you want to be that way about it ....... LOL.

You're taking my response personally, and you shouldn't.  I only used a personal  pronoun, you,  twice, and in the same sentence.  Just the same it was not meant to be directed at you, personally.  It was meant to be a generic you - apply to any reader, not you alone.  So, I could say, you misread my posting as well.  BUT, I suppose I could have worded that differently, so my bad.

Additionally you used the term "blind faith".  In the context of a forum like this, the term, in general use, is generally viewed as a negative - a Bad Thing.  In a Budddhist view there is really no such thing as "blind" faith.  There is only faith and that is a Good Thing.

Have had many people believe what ever they want and read into my words whatever they wished. Don't care.
But, that will not stop me from trying to correct the mistake. Just like my use of the words blind faith.
I said Buddhism never makes one believe in blind faith. And here blind faith is a negative term.
I am not saying that Buddhist have blind faith or use blind faith. So, the negative term is used in a positive way.
So, Buddhist view is there is no such thing as blind faith. I never said there was.

If I say that in Buddhist view is there is no such thing as self
Or there is nothing that goes on after the death of the skandhas. Well as far as the three truths.
1. Everything is impermanent and changing ... Annica
2. Impermanence leads to suffering .............. Dukkha
3. There is no self (unchanging) ................... Anatta
Question becomes, "No self. So, what is there that can have any faith at all??"

Anyway, it isn't the Buddhist view I speak of .. just stuff I picked up along the way.
As always, you can correct me when I am wrong. Nothing personal.

10
Danger Zone / Re: Forgiving the Views of others.
« on: May 04, 2021, 07:03:09 PM »
Forgiving the views of others? Forgiving others usually is a first step in finding peace in oneself.

The idea that one person's ideas are passed on from one generation to the next is one view.
I like to look at it as the next generation can only truly change things when the previous generation has passed away.
The idea of slavery, of discrimination, of hatred of someone different are ideas passed on from one generation to the next
And, the idea that all men are created equal also is passed on from one generation to the next.
It is only when the previous generation of hatred dies that freedom from those ideas can be truly felt.

Now, all this "view" stuff is in consideration to understand the eightfold path's right view??
Let's say in some remote village of long ago, people would sacrifice a child to appease the gods.
The right view would be not to accept such beliefs and to know that compassion trumps the other beliefs of sacrifice.
Wisdom and compassion go hand in hand with the right view.

I can not say what one must do to survive a career in corrections.
No understanding of such trials and demands.
But, I do know there is no way to pass on the right view to others who do not want to learn.
You can only lead a horse to water. You can not make it drink.

11
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 04, 2021, 06:28:18 PM »
Life, taken as a whole, is perfect for asking questions.  I'd see it as a right.

If you choose to to surrendder that, it's entirely on you. 

To say that Buddhism encourages questioning and other traditions don't, is a little narrow minded.  That's to say that to believe that is bad is equally short-sighted.  The things is all faith traditons, Buddhism included, have a positive component of faith - complete trust in someone or something. The "complete" component, presupposes a level of blindness - belief in the absense of physical evidence.  I have many firends who practice their failth "blindly", and y'know what?  They're fine.  Their lives have been their verification.  What can you say?
Never said other traditions or religions don't encourage questioning. Only said that Buddhism is perfect for asking questions. Please do not read more into what I said. If I said the sky is blue doesn't mean it can not be gray also. One does not infer the other. As being perfect for asking questions that doesn't mean there is no component of faith in Buddhism. What you see is up to you. Your mind will complete the image. Of course people are fine with living with faith, people can live with many things. Good, bad or indifferent. If you ask me, "What can you say" then you are being short sighted.

12
Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 04, 2021, 01:25:52 AM »
I find very questionable the idea that "attachment leads to suffering", so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering? Seems like a lot of people don't want to question ancient religious ideas. But what would buddhism be if they did?
Attachment leads to suffering. I find that statement to be very true.
It can also lead to joy and laughter. It isn't always one way. Things change.
When (if) you love someone, you become attached to having that person around.
Lose that person, either thru death or divorce or something else, and the attachment is what makes the suffering.
If no attachment then no suffering. Of course, one can not go thru life without feelings.
If a relative (mom or dad) pass away. Then we can feel sad and grieve.
But, we should not cling to our attachments which then can create more suffering.
Just got to be able to let it go and remain in the present moment. Though, not easy to do.

Buddhism is perfect for asking questions. Buddha never made anyone believe in blind faith.
You are suppose to ask questions and verify for yourself.
 
All sanghas seem to either want you to torture yourself or lie to you, so what's the point? I don't see why more people don't practice meditation alone and fully divorce it from hindu spirituality and buddhism (there's very little difference between the two...). I wanted to put this in a much shorter message but your programming clearly still doesn't %^&*ing work. It would have taken you much less time and effort to tell me what a TOS is...
TOS ... terms of service.
To use a forum, one must agree to the terms upon one needs to register to use the forum.

A sangha is a place where like minded or similar spiritual people gather to allow ourselves to grow.
Where are the lies or torture? We practice together to give each other encouragement.
It is a lot easier to go forward when we have a cheering section. LOL.

Hindu spirituality and Buddhism is quite different
But, if you don't know enough about it or are just looking for similarities then that is what you will find.

I am not here to argue. But, if you know more then I am willing to learn.

13
Tea Room / Re: Jokes and stories
« on: May 02, 2021, 08:59:39 PM »
Some time ago, traveling monks would go to a temple and have a Dharma battle.
If the monk won then he could get accommodations and stay a while.
So, one day, this monk goes to this temple to stay for the night.
The Abbot is busy so he sends his assistant to tend to the matter.
And, he says to do this one in silence.
His assistant is a rather tall man with only one good eye.
The monk and the assistant meet in the court yard.
The monk holds one finger up.
The assistant holds two fingers up.
The monk then holds up three fingers.
The assistant holds up his fist.
And then the monk bows and proceeds to the main door to exit.
The assistant is chasing after him.
When the Abbot sees the monk, he asks the monk what happened.
The monk says I put up one finger to say the nature of Buddha is one with the world
The assistant put up two fingers to point to the duality of nature.
Then the monk says he put up three fingers to represent the three Jewels (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha)
The assistant put up his fist to show they are all one.
The monk feels he lost. And this is why he is leaving.
When the Abbot sees his assistant, he asks him what happened.
The assistant says the monk was rude and put up one finger to show I have only one eye
So, I put up two finger to congratulate him on having two eyes.
The assistance says the monk then put up three fingers to show we have three eyes altogether
He angered me so much that I put up my fist.
Then he turned and left. I am following him to beat him up.

Note: This story is from long ago and did not remember it all
So, there has been edits to correct the story.

14
Tea Room / Re: Jokes and stories
« on: May 02, 2021, 08:49:04 PM »
There is a Christian, a Jew and a Buddhist waiting at an after life station
The guard there says that they must test each to see if they are worthy of entrance
The Jew steps up and the guard asks him how to spell Yahweh.
The Jew says "Y-A-H-W-E-H" and the guard says he can pass the gate
The Christian steps up and the guard asks him to spell Jesus.
The Christian says "J-E-S-U-S" and the guard says he can pass the gate
The Buddhist steps up and the guard asks him to spell Avalokiteshvara.

15
Tea Room / Re: Jokes and stories
« on: April 28, 2021, 06:51:14 PM »
One day, a scorpion sees a frog about to jump into the water and ask him to wait.
The scorpion ask if he can ride the frog across the water to see his family on the other side
The frog says no because he believes the scorpion will sting him and he will die
The scorpion says that he will not sting him. Because if he did then they both will die.
So, the frog agrees to carry the scorpion across the water.
When they are about mid way, the scorpion stings the frog.
The frog ask why because now they will both die.
The scorpion replies because it is in my nature

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