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Messages - Chaz

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Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: Today at 03:05:30 AM »
i'm sorry that my thread degraded into insults...i'm sorry that i was sarcastic and insulting, but can you tell me about a particular form of right and wrong speech? I feel like i constantly have an issue with this...but yes, i am sorry that i cause suffering and %^&* with people at times. I've been trying to meditate a whole lot but something just seems to always get in the way.

This is the danger zone, is this then a dangerous place to talk about things? Please answer my questions.

The DZ is meant to discuss hot-button or controversial topics.  It's not meant to be a forum where you can say what you want to someone.  Hard- and fast rules are difficiult, but a little common sense can go a long way.  Being snarky, mean-spirited, abusive, insulting and so on, simply won't fly.  Wheaton's Rule:  "Don't be a dick", is a pretty good one to follow in social media.  You can go a long way with that.  You can be strong and assertive in your opinions, and still not be a dick about it.  Be careful with what you post.  Think about it.  Don't be in a hurry to post it.

If people get out of line, that's my problem.  Someone's pushing your buttons, step away.  Meditate on Clover's Rules 1 & 2..  It's also valuable to contemplate Rule 5: "Harden the !@#$ up".

I'm not real big on Right vs Wrong Speech.  In terms ofr the N8FP that's really not what it's about.

The DZ is for hot topics, not hot language.

And don't worry about your practice.  Just keep practicing.

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 15, 2021, 06:33:58 AM »
Hmm, time to leave.

Well, I hate to see that, but it's your decision.  Good Luck.

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 14, 2021, 10:19:24 PM »
Yeah, have seen those who put out compliments only to be truly insulting.
Sometimes hard to see the real meaning without the actual words being heard.

I see you like to be difficult and contrary. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

LOL, people can be so apologetic when theirs an impeding fear of DOOM and FIRE
Yeah, and the cycle continues on.
And why would any body be apologetic if not for their fear of impending DOOM and FIRE.
Have seen video of police kick a guy in a holding cell. This is while the guy is handcuff and not resisting.
Charges were brought up against the officer. And in court, he apologized so tearfully.
What good were those apologies to the guy in the holding cell?

OK, I don't want to see this degrade into a discussion on right speech.  I think I've been abundantly clear already, but recap,  while perhaps not quite unacceptable, calling someone child-like is pushing the boundaries pretty close to the edge and I encourage all of us to not go there, even if it isn't our intent to insult or demean. 

I would like that to be the last word on that and I would request we get back to the east/west discussion we were having.  If not, I'll just lock the thread.


Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 13, 2021, 05:24:05 PM »

I see you like to be difficult and contrary. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.

<Chaz  put's on his Mod Cap> Ok, so how about we try and be a little more carefull about choice of words, ok?
And to think this was about a note to not take what I say as being rude or an attack????

Yes, but it's the language that occurred earlier in your post. Your choice of words' and their usage would upset just about anyone it was directed at, and your closing statement about not trying to be rude, etc, would be lost.  That's all.

On a personal level I adhere to the first and second of Clover's Rules of Social Media:

1.)  Never take anything said to or about you, personally
2.)  If something said to or about you, is meant to be taken personally, Refer to rule 1

Not everyone adheres to these rules.

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 13, 2021, 04:46:57 AM »

I see you like to be difficult and contrary. Have met lots of children like that.
And much fewer adults with such syndromes. But, take it however you like.
My meaning was to not get upset with anything I said. Cause I am not trying to be rude, difficult or contrary.

<Chaz  put's on his Mod Cap> Ok, so how about we try and be a little more carefull about choice of words, ok?

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 12, 2021, 06:11:44 PM »
I've always wanted to some traveling in the far eastern part of the earth but i don't know if i'm ever going to feel comfortable about doing that for all sorts of reasons.

I would encourage you to do that.  There's a lot to be said for being on the ground with a different culture.

I've never been to India, but I have been to Egypt.  It was mainly a site-seeing trip, but it was impossible to not be exposed to the culture of the place and especially the religious aspects.  It gave me a fresh, positive perspective in a way that would have been impossible anywhere else.  It also served to sever some of my preconceived notions about the region and Islam.  It was a priceless experience, and one I'll never forget.

You should do it.

Meditation / Re: Thoughts about a practice group
« on: May 11, 2021, 09:53:02 PM »
That's why there is a diversity of centers and groups.  I agree that trying to run into several directions at once is distracting and confusing.  Better to pick one thing and focus on that.

Chaz, I see your points about in-person being better than online.  But, by my experience, Zoom meditation can work well and it is even possible to give instruction in this way.  It's better if the people attending are not complete strangers and the group is small. 

Thankfully, however, the pandemic is receding and it will be possible to meet in person again soon.

Yes, and I'm basically waiting on that to happen.  Get back to some semblance of normalcy, then move forward.

I want to get with my old friend Jeffrey the Meditator, to seek counsel in the matter.  He did what I'm thinking about, but he was a meditation instructor and teacher in the Shambhala tradition, before and had the street cred.

Meditation / Re: Thoughts about a practice group
« on: May 11, 2021, 04:57:27 PM »
Hmm, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Practice is practice. To make everyone do the exact same thing is like trying to teach and follow your practice. No choice?

My feeling is, one practice method, or two, if related, is best. Thats what I'm the most comfortable with.  This is how dharma centers do it.  Allowing anyone do what they please, causes too much confusion.  Think of it like this:  Lets say someone goes to a Zendo for group practice and rather than zazen, starts chanting Nembutsu.  That's an unnecessary distraction.    Better to keep everyone on the same page, practice-wise.

I'm sure there are groups that allow that sort of thing, but TBH, that's not the kind of group I want to be a part of.

Meditation / Re: Thoughts about a practice group
« on: May 10, 2021, 07:12:47 PM »
So, practice group?
What or how would this be accomplished?
Meet at a set time and day?
Leave the computer on and in a meeting of silence?
Or have a meeting with a teacher giving a lecture?

To me it seems quite difficult without being there in person??

Good question.

First, the Covid restrictions would have to ease to the point where small gatherings would be allowed and safe.

Then I'd want to get permission from my practice lineage to teach meditation and once I have that, then start gathering people who want to learn  and can get together one day a week somewhere.  I'd want everyone doing the same practice - Shamatha - as it would be easier to manage than some folks doing vipassana, zazen, chants, etc.

Teaching is another story.  I couldn't teach, but getting video teachings would be doable, again, from the same lineage, at least to begin with.

If it grows beyond that,  well, cross that bridge when we get to it.

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 06, 2021, 03:34:26 PM »
No self. You look at it and find no self can be found.
Me having found no self, questions further what can have faith?
And, that is why I posed the question of what there is that can have any faith at all.

Self may be an illusion, but that is only relative. Despite what you have intelectualized, you will cponue to behave as if all phenomena have a self. 

So what has faith?  The you/self that perpetuates despite what what you believe you know.

Nihilism?? Do not know what that is.
But, you must know.
All three points are yours.

Note: Please do not take anything I say personally.
There is no intent to be rude or attack.
It is just my personality taking over the conversation.
Ego is sometimes a hard thing to keep in check.

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 05, 2021, 08:46:37 PM »

Have had many people believe what ever they want and read into my words whatever they wished. Don't care.
But, that will not stop me from trying to correct the mistake. Just like my use of the words blind faith.
I said Buddhism never makes one believe in blind faith. And here blind faith is a negative term.
I am not saying that Buddhist have blind faith or use blind faith. So, the negative term is used in a positive way.
So, Buddhist view is there is no such thing as blind faith. I never said there was.

I get that, but the way you put it leaves things open to say that all traditions other than Buddhism can or do.

If I say that in Buddhist view is there is no such thing as self
Or there is nothing that goes on after the death of the skandhas. Well as far as the three truths.
1. Everything is impermanent and changing ... Annica
2. Impermanence leads to suffering .............. Dukkha
3. There is no self (unchanging) ................... Anatta

Actually those are the Three Marks of Existence.

Question becomes, "No self. So, what is there that can have any faith at all??"

That hints of nihilism.  Better to say that "no self can be found".

Danger Zone / Re: Forgiving the Views of others.
« on: May 05, 2021, 08:23:55 PM »
Right view as in the eightfold path, does not mean right versus wrong
It means the view that leads to the truth <snip>

Thanks - people often make the mistake of using a right/wrong
paradigm with the 4NT.

Even the use the the term "right" can confuse things.  I know several people in Colorado who make their living by translating either Sanskrit or Tibetan.  They all agree that the word "right" in the 4nt is a poor translation.  The word "Complete"  is more fitting. Hell, even "Four Noble Truths"  is poor translation.  "The Four Truths of The Noble Ones (Buddhas)" is thought to be better by some.

Also, according to both Theravada and Mahayana teachings, Right View is the 4NT, the 3 Marks of Existence, and Karma.

Danger Zone / Re: Forgiving the Views of others.
« on: May 04, 2021, 07:09:17 PM »
Forgiving the views of others? Forgiving others usually is a first step in finding peace in oneself.

The idea that one person's ideas are passed on from one generation to the next is one view.
I like to look at it as the next generation can only truly change things when the previous generation has passed away.
The idea of slavery, of discrimination, of hatred of someone different are ideas passed on from one generation to the next
And, the idea that all men are created equal also is passed on from one generation to the next.
It is only when the previous generation of hatred dies that freedom from those ideas can be truly felt.

Now, all this "view" stuff is in consideration to understand the eightfold path's right view??
Let's say in some remote village of long ago, people would sacrifice a child to appease the gods.
The right view would be not to accept such beliefs and to know that compassion trumps the other beliefs of sacrifice.
Wisdom and compassion go hand in hand with the right view.

I can not say what one must do to survive a career in corrections.
No understanding of such trials and demands.
But, I do know there is no way to pass on the right view to others who do not want to learn.
You can only lead a horse to water. You can not make it drink.

Are you looking at the word "Right" as in right vs wrong?

Danger Zone / Re: east and west
« on: May 04, 2021, 07:06:17 PM »
Life, taken as a whole, is perfect for asking questions.  I'd see it as a right.

If you choose to to surrendder that, it's entirely on you. 

To say that Buddhism encourages questioning and other traditions don't, is a little narrow minded.  That's to say that to believe that is bad is equally short-sighted.  The things is all faith traditons, Buddhism included, have a positive component of faith - complete trust in someone or something. The "complete" component, presupposes a level of blindness - belief in the absense of physical evidence.  I have many firends who practice their failth "blindly", and y'know what?  They're fine.  Their lives have been their verification.  What can you say?
Never said other traditions or religions don't encourage questioning. Only said that Buddhism is perfect for asking questions. Please do not read more into what I said. If I said the sky is blue doesn't mean it can not be gray also. One does not infer the other. As being perfect for asking questions that doesn't mean there is no component of faith in Buddhism. What you see is up to you. Your mind will complete the image. Of course people are fine with living with faith, people can live with many things. Good, bad or indifferent. If you ask me, "What can you say" then you are being short sighted.

Well if you want to be that way about it ....... LOL.

You're taking my response personally, and you shouldn't.  I only used a personal  pronoun, you,  twice, and in the same sentence.  Just the same it was not meant to be directed at you, personally.  It was meant to be a generic you - apply to any reader, not you alone.  So, I could say, you misread my posting as well.  BUT, I suppose I could have worded that differently, so my bad.

Additionally you used the term "blind faith".  In the context of a forum like this, the term, in general use, is generally viewed as a negative - a Bad Thing.  In a Budddhist view there is really no such thing as "blind" faith.  There is only faith and that is a Good Thing.

Tea Room / Re: Buddhist numbers
« on: May 04, 2021, 06:49:59 PM »
There are so many things in Buddhism that come in numbered groups -- honestly, I don't know of any other religion or philosophy that comes close.  So how about putting them in this thread, starting with the lowest number?

I will begin with One -- the one Unexcelled, Perfect, and Complete Awakening, Anuttara-Samyak-Sambodhi.

Are there any more Ones or is it time to move on to Two?  Also, maybe the list should have started out from Zero?

Actually, the Rigpa Wiki lists many of the Enumeration in canon.

Oddly, it doesn't list any Enumerations at 01.  Makes sense to me.

It is also a salient feature of Buddhism, that many teaching are presented that way.

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