Author Topic: east and west  (Read 156 times)

MarasAndBuddhas

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east and west
« on: November 18, 2020, 04:41:32 AM »
i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways. Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism.

Overall this is kind of sensitive and problematic discussion, yet I do think it's worth having. In strict buddhism your not even really supposed to talk about other people, but you can have insights or study the way that people different from yourself think.
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 05:24:45 PM »
i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways.


In some ways, yes, in other ways, no.

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Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism.

Not sure how that follows?

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In strict buddhism your not even really supposed to talk about other people, <snip>

Really?  I'm curious.  Where?



MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 10:06:29 PM »
if my credibility is what's important here, i can't find anything at the moment which says exactly that, but when i was part of a zen sangha i read that it's forbidden as a monk to talk about other people in the sangha when they aren't there to hear it.

Anyway, I didn't post this to seek more questions, I posted this because I'm wondering what the legit differences are between eastern and western duality, or maybe if there's has been any recent changes in these things that we could learn from.

"i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways. Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism."

yes, these two sentences do fallow each other. People from the US tend to look for something without.
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Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2020, 12:40:46 AM »
if my credibility is what's important here, i can't find anything at the moment which says exactly that,

It's not a question of credibility.  It's curiosity.

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but when i was part of a zen sangha i read that it's forbidden as a monk to talk about other people in the sangha when they aren't there to hear it.

This isn't a monatery and we aren't monks.

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Anyway, I didn't post this to seek more questions, I posted this because I'm wondering what the legit differences are between eastern and western duality, or maybe if there's has been any recent changes in these things that we could learn from.

Ok, now you're talking about duality.  IOW you've moved the goalposts.

"i'm just curious if people from what's referred to the east and west really think in tremendously different ways. Ideas about this are a lot of the reason why Americans and Europeans turn to buddhism."

yes, these two sentences do fallow each other. People from the US tend to look for something without.

From what you seem to be asking for, would involve an initmate knowledge of varying cultures.  That's something you'll find rare around here.  I spent time in Egypt and talked to a lot of poeople about a lot of Egyptian things, but we never got around to a discussion of comparative indeas on duality.  I know a lot of Canadians and we talk about a lot of stuff including but not limited to why their beer sucks, but never about Duality. I recently moved to the American Southeast.  Different culture.  Again, they'd rather talk about Nascar than duality down here.  I've met a few ethic Tibetans, and we've actually discussed duality or more properly the dualistic nature of our perceptions.  Not sure if that's what's you're after, though..

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2020, 02:01:20 AM »
You could probably find ways of talking about duality with those supposed "rednecks", but I guess I shouldn't post anything unless I'm extremely specific. Each person is a different window into reality, or as Indian spiritualists talk about it, "The Self", but I'm still not sure what they mean by that, I still meditate regardless, but maybe meditation will teach me more about that in time...
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2020, 02:28:32 AM »
You could probably find ways of talking about duality with those supposed "rednecks" <snip>

People down here?  They're not "redencks".  They're people.  There are three things that matter down here - NASCAR, Church and Barbeque (not necessarily in that order). They just don't care about dualiity.  Most people don't.  I don't blame them.

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2020, 02:46:32 AM »
You could probably find ways of talking about duality with those supposed "rednecks" <snip>

People down here?  They're not "redencks".  They're people.  There are three things that matter down here - NASCAR, Church and Barbeque (not necessarily in that order). They just don't care about dualiity.  Most people don't.  I don't blame them.

my bad, i guess i just thought that's what you meant since there's that joke: "What does NASCAR stand for? Non-athletic sport centered around rednecks"...there also has been a pretty tremendous amount of prejudice centered around people from certain states like the one you live in, mostly on the internet, mostly because of a certain president...
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2020, 03:26:21 PM »
my bad, i guess i just thought that's what you meant since there's that joke: "What does NASCAR stand for? Non-athletic sport centered around rednecks"...there also has been a pretty tremendous amount of prejudice centered around people from certain states like the one you live in, mostly on the internet, mostly because of a certain president...

The people down here have been getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop from the rest of the country for a long time.  When we decided to move down here we had friends who doubted our sanity, based on their perception of what things are like here.  Happy to say it ain't so - at least to the extent of their fears and predjudices.

This conveniently points to your topic of duality.  People in the North percienve the South differently - less that their own - inferior - egregious. They do this to feel better about themselves.  I call it Othering.

And yes, it causes suffering.

Gibbon

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Re: east and west
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2020, 06:50:00 PM »
The Parable of the Two Villages:

A man who was traveling came upon a farmer working in his field and asked him what the people in the next village were like. The farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The man responded "They were kind, friendly, generous, great people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer.

Another man who was traveling to the same village came up to the same farmer somewhat later and asked him what the people in the next village were like. Again the farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The second man responded, "They were rude, unfriendly, dishonest people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer.


http://wiki.c2.com/?ParableOfTheTwoVillages

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2020, 07:08:38 PM »
my bad, i guess i just thought that's what you meant since there's that joke: "What does NASCAR stand for? Non-athletic sport centered around rednecks"...there also has been a pretty tremendous amount of prejudice centered around people from certain states like the one you live in, mostly on the internet, mostly because of a certain president...

The people down here have been getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop from the rest of the country for a long time.  When we decided to move down here we had friends who doubted our sanity, based on their perception of what things are like here.  Happy to say it ain't so - at least to the extent of their fears and predjudices.

This conveniently points to your topic of duality.  People in the North percienve the South differently - less that their own - inferior - egregious. They do this to feel better about themselves.  I call it Othering.

And yes, it causes suffering.

i'm glad you are learning about rural america, i try to get people to come out here sometimes yet cities seem to offer people more stuff. You also don't need to own a car in a metropolitan area, which is an advantage on many different levels...yet i've found that people in cities are just as prejudicial and suspicious towards strangers, so I don't know how I would work that out other than being perfect, so I don't know how I would work that out in the long run without tremendous suffering.
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2020, 07:25:31 PM »
i'm glad you are learning about rural america, i

You presume too much.  I don't live in a rural area.

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yet i've found that people in cities are just as prejudicial and suspicious towards strangers, so I don't know how I would work that out other than being perfect,

You can't be perfect.  Don't try.

Trungpa Rinpoche once said that Buddhism was about becoming a genuine human being.  That doesn't not include being "perfect", whatever that means.


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so I don't know how I would work that out in the long run without tremendous suffering.

If you try to become something that's impossible to achieve, I guarantee you will suffer for it.

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2020, 07:56:36 PM »
i'm glad you are learning about rural america, i

You presume too much.  I don't live in a rural area.

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yet i've found that people in cities are just as prejudicial and suspicious towards strangers, so I don't know how I would work that out other than being perfect,

i wouldn't presume anything if people didn't give me non-specific information, for example, telling me that "nobody here cares about anything except

You can't be perfect.  Don't try.

Trungpa Rinpoche once said that Buddhism was about becoming a genuine human being.  That doesn't not include being "perfect", whatever that means.


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so I don't know how I would work that out in the long run without tremendous suffering.

If you try to become something that's impossible to achieve, I guarantee you will suffer for it.

I can't help but presuming when other people make such broad statements as "...people here [where?] would rather talk about NASCAR than duality...", standard internet affair, people just wait for some moment to criticize somebody else or tell them what to do. I would really love to never make unfair generalizations about other people but doesn't seem possible. I basically just have to try to play along with everyone else's generalizations. Have fun with your fuzzy lollypops, I'll be back when I need some reading material.
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2020, 10:15:08 PM »
I can't help but presuming when other people make such broad statements as "...people here [where?] would rather talk about NASCAR than duality...", standard internet affair, people just wait for some moment to criticize somebody else or tell them what to do. I would really love to never make unfair generalizations about other people but doesn't seem possible. I basically just have to try to play along with everyone else's generalizations. Have fun with your fuzzy lollypops, I'll be back when I need some reading material.

Except that I live in in SC and that people here seem to value NASCAR over duality as conversational fare, I never said anything to even suggest I live in a rural setting.  That's on you.

You don't have to rely on the generalizations that others establish.  Create your own or try not to generalize.

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: east and west
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2020, 11:39:01 PM »
I can't help but presuming when other people make such broad statements as "...people here [where?] would rather talk about NASCAR than duality...", standard internet affair, people just wait for some moment to criticize somebody else or tell them what to do. I would really love to never make unfair generalizations about other people but doesn't seem possible. I basically just have to try to play along with everyone else's generalizations. Have fun with your fuzzy lollypops, I'll be back when I need some reading material.

Except that I live in in SC and that people here seem to value NASCAR over duality as conversational fare, I never said anything to even suggest I live in a rural setting.  That's on you.

You don't have to rely on the generalizations that others establish.  Create your own or try not to generalize.

You are sanctimonious, i didn't force you to respond to the topic, you went ahead and did it anyway because you clearly thought you were helping me or something. There's nothing wrong with leaving your forum blank until better content comes along.

You clearly haven't learned anything. Obviously not everyone in SC likes NASCAR, I'm so %^&*ing tired of other peoples dumb as hell generalizations, it's a nightmare, %^&* you. I'm tired of hearing one type of person say "the welfare cheats ruin everything! the immigrants steal!", and then the other person say "america is white supremacist! white supremacists are ruining democracy!".

I also don't fully rely on other people's generalizations...but that's part of being a human, is you rely on information that other people give you, I can't make them out of thin air unless I'm either lying or writing stories. I find very questionable the idea that "attachment leads to suffering", so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering? Seems like a lot of people don't want to question ancient religious ideas. But what would buddhism be if they did?

All sanghas seem to either want you to torture yourself or lie to you, so what's the point? I don't see why more people don't practice meditation alone and fully divorce it from hindu spirituality and buddhism (there's very little difference between the two...). I wanted to put this in a much shorter message but your programming clearly still doesn't %^&*ing work. It would have taken you much less time and effort to tell me what a TOS is...
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Chaz

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Re: east and west
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2020, 12:42:37 AM »
You are sanctimonious, i didn't force you to respond to the topic, you went ahead and did it anyway because you clearly thought you were helping me or something. There's nothing wrong with leaving your forum blank until better content comes along.

You clearly haven't learned anything. Obviously not everyone in SC likes NASCAR, I'm so %^&*ing tired of other peoples dumb as hell generalizations, it's a nightmare, %^&* you. I'm tired of hearing one type of person say "the welfare cheats ruin everything! the immigrants steal!", and then the other person say "america is white supremacist! white supremacists are ruining democracy!".

I also don't fully rely on other people's generalizations...but that's part of being a human, is you rely on information that other people give you, I can't make them out of thin air unless I'm either lying or writing stories. I find very questionable the idea that "attachment leads to suffering", so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering? Seems like a lot of people don't want to question ancient religious ideas. But what would buddhism be if they did?

All sanghas seem to either want you to torture yourself or lie to you, so what's the point? I don't see why more people don't practice meditation alone and fully divorce it from hindu spirituality and buddhism (there's very little difference between the two...). I wanted to put this in a much shorter message but your programming clearly still doesn't %^&*ing work. It would have taken you much less time and effort to tell me what a TOS is...

Dude, what are you going on about?  Somebody pee in your Wheaties this morning or something?

Now, I'm gonna let the "!@#$ You" slide.  Just this once.  But for the record ......

I'm not sanctimonious.

You're the one who presumed to say I lived in a rural area, my best guess why being that you apparently assume that SC is entirely rural.  You're also the one made the generalization that people down here are "rednecks".

I didn't write the 4NT, ok?  If you don't like the idea that attachment is suffering, that's fine, but it is what Buddhism teaches.

You can meditate all you like and completely divorce yourself from the Dharmic Religion part.  That's fine, too.

I understand if you've had some trouble with other Sanghas.  I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about that.

You are also the one who put this topic in the DZ.  What did you expect.

You also posted a topic that quite honestly would be difficult to impossible to discuss here.  I'm sorry but I can't helpt that, either.

So what's the !@#$ing problem?

Oh, and TOS means Terms of Service