Author Topic: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering  (Read 311 times)

Chaz

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Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« on: November 21, 2020, 01:04:18 AM »
M&B posted something that bears discussion on it's own.

Quote
so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering?

I'm reading "believe" as "between".

The answer to that is unequivocally, yes.

My guru gave a teaching where he said the fear was the cause of suffering.  Where are afraid the good things will go away and bad things will stay.  so we become attached to that.  Thus there is suffering.

A mother, naturally fears for her child.  She is afraid that her child will get sick.  The child will die.  Leave her.  Not love her.  This cause the mother to cling to the chaild in the forlorn hope that the changes she fears will not come to pass.  That is suffering.  The mother isn't bad for feeling the way she does.  The suffering she experiences isn't bad either.  Just the same it is attachment and it is suffering.

I have an example.  about 50 years ago something happened with/to me that caused my mother such anguish and fear for my well-being that she had a breakdown and ended up in the hospital.  Wht she was feeling wasn't bad, and quite understandable, but it she was suffering on my account.  It was so bad that the family never really recovered from it and  that's on me.  A lot of suffering from a lot of love. 

That's an extreme case, but event the natural care and love a mother will have for her child, will be suffering.  It's inescapable.

MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2020, 04:29:59 PM »
you know, i didn't even want to look at some of the responses to some of the more passionate and angry things i said on here, but im just totally unsurprised. You just erase things when you don't like it. That doesn't make this a more moral or Buddhist forum by the way, to have fewer and fewer content. It just reflects existing conventions, something that monastic buddhists understandably don't have much of a problem with.

Anyways,
peace and love from a former buddhist.
When thoughts arise, then do all things arise. When thoughts vanish, then do all things vanish.

Gibbon

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Re: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2020, 12:09:29 AM »
M&B posted something that bears discussion on it's own.

Quote
so am I supposed to believe an attachment believe an infant and a mother always without a doubt leads to suffering?

I'm reading "believe" as "between".

The answer to that is unequivocally, yes.

My guru gave a teaching where he said the fear was the cause of suffering.  Where are afraid the good things will go away and bad things will stay.  so we become attached to that.  Thus there is suffering.

A mother, naturally fears for her child.  She is afraid that her child will get sick.  The child will die.  Leave her.  Not love her.  This cause the mother to cling to the chaild in the forlorn hope that the changes she fears will not come to pass.  That is suffering.  The mother isn't bad for feeling the way she does.  The suffering she experiences isn't bad either.  Just the same it is attachment and it is suffering.

I have an example.  about 50 years ago something happened with/to me that caused my mother such anguish and fear for my well-being that she had a breakdown and ended up in the hospital.  Wht she was feeling wasn't bad, and quite understandable, but it she was suffering on my account.  It was so bad that the family never really recovered from it and  that's on me.  A lot of suffering from a lot of love. 

That's an extreme case, but event the natural care and love a mother will have for her child, will be suffering.  It's inescapable.

I've been meaning to reply for a while, sorry it took so long.  Yes, even the best relationship between mother and child (no emotional or health issues ever) will lead to suffering.  That is because it will end. 

Why?  Because all conditioned things are impermanent.  So when they fall apart, as they will, it will lead to suffering.  There are no exceptions from the law of dependent origination. 

Also, karma is very complex.  We choose our parents much more than our parents choose us and there will be deep entanglements and issues right there.   But liberation is real and also the prospect of helping our present parents and all sentient beings, who have also been our parents, in a meaningful way.

Chaz

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Re: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2020, 04:56:18 PM »
you know, i didn't even want to look at some of the responses to some of the more passionate and angry things i said on here, but im just totally unsurprised. You just erase things when you don't like it. That doesn't make this a more moral or Buddhist forum by the way, to have fewer and fewer content. It just reflects existing conventions, something that monastic buddhists understandably don't have much of a problem with.

Anyways,
peace and love from a former buddhist.

You're perilously close to breaking rule 5 and another time out.

I delete posts that should be deleted.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 04:59:11 PM by Chaz »

Chaz

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Re: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2020, 01:40:19 AM »
I've been meaning to reply for a while, sorry it took so long.  Yes, even the best relationship between mother and child (no emotional or health issues ever) will lead to suffering.  That is because it will end. 

Why?  Because all conditioned things are impermanent.  So when they fall apart, as they will, it will lead to suffering.  There are no exceptions from the law of dependent origination. 

Also, karma is very complex.  We choose our parents much more than our parents choose us and there will be deep entanglements and issues right there.   But liberation is real and also the prospect of helping our present parents and all sentient beings, who have also been our parents, in a meaningful way.

Well said!

One reason I satrted this is because the question of suffering, as M&B putit,  is not uncommon.  People often ask how suffering can be explained in the case of love.  "How can love be suffering?"  they ask.  Well, anyone who's ever been in love has experniced things that time and wisdom  can reveal the truth of suffering.  You experience it, but it takes a new way of perception to realize the truth of it.

Even then, suffering continues for all the same reasons.  We fall in love.  It can't be helped.  It's how humans are.  There is no switch we can we can flip.  You simply can't turn off love.  You van suppress it to a point, but that'ssuffering, too.

All we can do is realize the truth and it's cause and take the path to cessation.

Gibbon

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Re: Fear, Attatchment, and Suffering
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2021, 12:34:48 AM »
Yes, we can try to suppress an emotion, but that will just give rise to more emotions, more mental states, more suffering.  The answer to that is probably more practice!  Then it becomes possible to observe love arise and function as a bystander, not a participant.  And that would be the beginning of freedom.

In any case, not just love, but any pleasurable thing turns its other side sooner or later.  What if you love chocolate and went to a chocolate factory where you can consume unlimited number of candies?  How long will that last!!

I remember, one time a poster on the old FreeSangha was asking if happiness is really an illusion, and gave the example of sitting in his armchair at the end of the day with a good book and a warm cat.  Very nice -- but it will end, like all other things in life.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 12:39:36 AM by Gibbon »

 

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